PERMACULTURE & PEAK OIL: Beyond 'Sustainability'
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Mar 182009
David Holmgren is co-originator (with Bill Mollison) of the permaculture concept and author of the recent book, PERMACULTURE: Principles and Pathways Beyond Sustainability. He talks about the need to move beyond the lulling hope that ‘green tech’ breakthroughs will allow world-wide ‘sustainable consumption’ to the recognition that dwindling oil supplies inevitably mean a mandatory ‘energy descent’ for human civilization across the planet. He argues that permaculture principles provide the …
I agree that as long as worst case scenarios of catastrophe can be avoided they should be. The fact are that there are technologies that are already better that the prominent oil Companies who control vast capital are suppressing? Many of these industries affecting our global economy go hand in hand check out Who killed Electric Car Movie & book Internal Combusttion How Corporations & Governments Addicted the World to Oil & Derailed the Alternatives. Oil is finite there other energy resources.
Frank Herbert’s covered these issues taking into consideration political & social contexts as well. In a Mother Earth News interview he talks about techonologies and modern conveiences we would first want to replace should civilization as we know it end in one of these ways.
yep. electric cars should have replaced internal combustion 20 years ago. but they didn’t. I’ve seen that movie and they blame the willfully ignorant consumer as much as big oil. you can’t force solutions on people, if they truly wanted them they would have been here long before peak oil. most people are quite stupid about such things, they want to drive big cars while the gas is cheap and not worry. we have peak oil now and gas cars, CTL is our only real, certain hope for right now.
I am just beginning to think about all of this and i am very happy to have heard your ideas and takes on things. You have got me thinking. I will be actively reading, listening and studying ideas and thoughts on solutions. I hope the solution is a co-operative one. I sincerely hope that self-interest at the cost of humanities interest does not get in the way. Thanks for your thoughts. All the best Scott, Jay and Poe.
Europe reached the peak of its sustainability around 1500?! Post PO farming without mechanical aid or artificial fertilizer would be v hard — especially for a nation where few are farmers or even used to physical labor. Canada has about 3.5 people per sq km compared to Russia (8.5), US (35), Mexico (52), Cuba (101), France (110), China (138), UK (250), Japan (340), Netherlands (478), Bangladesh (1020) and Singapore (1261). I don’t have figures for land usable for organic farming.
Cuba has achieved miracles and after a lot of pain I suspect the US will survive. Not so sure about us Europeans! Can the UK survive on one acre per person? The hard truth is that without cheap energy many countries appear to have population levels that will be impossible to maintain PO.
What percentage of Americans do you think would live in rural areas if we converted to permaculture?
Its scary to think about the fact that grocery stores, while seemingly so plentiful in food it gives off the illusion of an infinite resource, only hold less then a week’s supply.. if the shit hits the fan it’ll take less then a week before people go hungry and when someone’s kids are starving they will do anything
Scaith, we (in the US) are trained to believe that unlimited economic growth is the key to success and happiness. Just not true. It’s natural to resist change, but the ability to adapt is what keeps us alive.
Pay special attention to Holmgren’s words about species becoming more co-operative in low-energy ecosystems. No “gated communities” anymore (see Jared Diamond). Support a local organic farmer by joining a CSA, and learn a low-energy trade. That’s how we prevent the grocery-store riots.
If you think Holmgren is not optimistic, you aren’t too familiar with reality as it is. Listen to some Richard Heinberg or Jay Hanson or Michael Klare or James Hansen or Sir David King. Colin Duncan, James Howard Kunstler, Peter Ward, Robert Jensen, Derrick Jensen, Jonathan Overpeck, James Speth. Just a list of some scientists, historians, activists, philosophers and social theorists who make Holmgren look like the figure of hope for humanity.
But “the problem is the solution.” The decline and eventual collapse of our current false economy (based on the combustion of fossil fuels) wil finally get us off this accelerating treadmill of bigger – more – faster – faster. In a slowed-down economy, we will actuaaly have time to plant and tend gardens, learn about edible and useful wild plants (maybe they aren’t just weeds), spend more time with our families instead of dropping the kids off a day care, and stop fighting with our neighbors.
personally, i think its a big illusion the thing with the elctric car- understanding energy concepts, electricity has a much higher energy quality than gasoline…virtually more than 70% of the electricity in the world is generated by burning fossil fuels…
an electric car needs more energy (not at all clean) than a combustion engine….
This film “Who killed the electric car” is not credible for me at all…
Yeah, at the current system, but in the documentary, they showed how they wanted to develope infrastructure of solar recharging stations…let alone, wind, solar, and tidal power is still a huge possible market,if we can direct all/ or most of those subsidies away from fossil fuels…then how awesome would it be?? Plus you can have SkyTran and or Mag Lev trains…
kendanielone,
I’m an ecologist who is very excited about energy descent. My best estimate is that anyone in town who is still financially mobile will try to acquire a little more land than they currently have for gardening and keeping small livestock, but I can tell you from experience that I have an 80′x120′ lot a mile from downtown, and I grow ~6000 lbs. of top quality organic produce, several quarts of honey, and over 1000 eggs anually.
You have to also remember that using the internal combustion engine spreads pollutants over a much wider area than a power plant, where emissions can be trapped. There are also differences such as chemical additives in petrol which make it more toxic, and the engine needs far more maintenance due to the excess of moving parts compared to electric. Plus, even now the grid is being supplied with nuclear energy, feed in from domestic micro-energy sources, and a small amount of renewable power.